#podcast #sobriety #marketing "[Be] intimately convinced of the project for which they work and who are committed themselves". it is for Charlotte Bocquet, Head of Brand & Communication at Chilowé the only way for an eco-responsible company to prove its legitimacy!
Chilowé is local adventures in the form of an online media and a travel agency (and also a festival).
Charlotte came to talk to us about Chilowé's marketing strategy and positioning as a media. With her time at EXKi, Charlotte also puts into perspective what makes a committed firm. An enriching discussion, which makes you want to leave your home, with a bag on your back.
List of references cited during the podcast: Usbek & Rica, Hopaal, Too Good to Go, EXKi, The Good Goods, Good or great
Enjoy your listening!
This recording is also available on all podcast platforms:
The text transcript of the podcast recorded with Chilowé
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Hello Charlotte.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Hi Jonathan.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Nice to have you with us in this podcast. Before we get started, before we get into the nitty-gritty, maybe you could introduce yourself, tell us where you're from, what you've done before, what you do all day.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
I am originally from Picardie, and now I live in Annecy. I have an engineering background in agronomy, nothing to do with marketing which is the job I do today. I manage the marketing for Chilowé, which is a start-up that promotes a more natural, more local, more joyful lifestyle. My days, it's still a bit of work. But it's also a lot of time outside, in nature, hiking or trail running, which I love. And in Annecy, it lends itself well.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
There are many people in Annecy. We recorded a podcast with Everide which was released not too long ago. And there are more in the pipeline. So what is Chilowé? I must admit that I have already listened to some podcasts about the project. I had stayed rather on the concept of a travel agency that offers local adventures. But when I went back to your site, it still sounds like a media. I don't mind if you explain a little bit how you operate and also how you earn your living.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
You're right, Chilowé, it's basically a media. To explain what we do, I'll tell you a little bit about the history of the company. Six years ago, Ferdinand, our founder, created Chilowé by sending a newsletter to 50 friends to tell them about his adventures in France and what they were doing on weekends in France. Adventures in the wilderness. The idea was to tell the stories they were living. And then, the 50 friends, today, became 90?000 readers. And so, every Thursday, we send out a newsletter to give good tips and a good dose of inspiration, to travel locally, to get involved in your daily life and to live better. So, we have this media activity with the newsletter, we have a website and social networks on which we make a lot of content related to these themes, local travel, commitment and then better consumption in everyday life. And after a while, the media that allowed us to give good plans, our community asked us to help them to go to the wilderness, because it was cool to give good ideas, but there were many who did not dare to go alone or who did not know how to organize themselves to go on an adventure.
And so, that's when we set up the travel agency. For two years now, we have had this travel agency activity, Club Chilowé. The concept is to reinvent travel, to make people leave for France without taking a plane, in small groups and always accompanied by a local guide. For example, we take them on a walking tour of Belle Ile. We take them to listen to the deer bellowing in the forest of Fontainebleau, we take them to learn how to bivouac in the Jura. Original experiences that go from the weekend to the week and that allow to live a real travel period. A parenthesis in his daily life.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
How many of you are at Chilowé today?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
In the team, we are about fifteen, if I am not mistaken.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Okay. And as a result, with many guides participating in the life of the club?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
The guides are not with us in the office on a daily basis. The fifteen or so people are really colleagues. There is a team which is on the Chilowé club, the travel agency, a team which is on the media only and some people who are in support on the aspects of com', marketing, Internet sites and all that. The guides are people external to Chilowé, but with whom we work hand in hand and who are our guides to whom we entrust the groups to go on the adventure.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
So, it's an interesting story because you started from the media and the newsletter to progressively invest other subjects and make the access to these local adventures a little bit easier for the common people. What are the other activities around Chilowé, beyond the club and the media part?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
You mean do we have other activities?
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Yes, there's the festival you mentioned in the intro before you started, for example.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, indeed, we have the festival. The festival. The festival, for us, we consider that it is part of the media. It's a moment where we produce content, where we look for interviews, stories, interesting things to broadcast. But that's our three main activities. The media, the festival which is part of the media and next to it, the Club Chilowé, the travel agency.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
If it's not too intrusive, what do you live for? On the travel agency? What makes you live on the travel agency? We can see quite clearly what it can do. The media is not necessarily something that is easy to make a living on. What is your source of income?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
It's true that the concept of media is quite vague for most people. On the media, what allows us to live is that we make partnerships with brands that are interested in having Chilowé talk about them. What's cool about Chilowé is that we have a very strong brand, we have a tone of voice, we have a way of expressing ourselves that people really like. We are a bit cheeky, we are serious, but without taking ourselves seriously. The brand is very beautiful in general. People like the content we make, etc. People like the content we make, etc. And we have a great community that follows us well. We have quite a few destinations or brands that come to us and want to work together. We make partnerships and then they let us take control of the content we want to broadcast about them. And so, we relay information about these brands or destinations. And so, that's how we live with the media.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Ok, that's very clear. The objective of this podcast is to discuss the notions of sobriety, of climate urgency and to see how marketing can be problematic or, on the contrary, accompany these approaches. So, I'm interested in knowing what Chilowé's mission is? Are you a company with a mission? What is your raison d'être? And what does it mean to be sober in your business?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes. We're not a mission company yet, but it's something we're thinking about. And it's true that why not be one day? It's a very interesting approach. But otherwise, we, our mission and raison d'êtreAs you say, it's all about inspiring and inspiring people, nature lovers who aspire to a more local, more joyful and more sustainable way of life. So, we get up in the morning and we want to give everyone the marbles to get involved and protect the planet. We're sharing our points of view, trying to give people the marbles they need to get a little more involved in their daily lives. You asked me about sobriety. For us, sobriety may mean less but good, or less but better. Consume less perhaps, but in any case, consume better.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Okay. What I saw in the notions of sobriety in relation to your activity is that you propose to people to live an adventure, to inspire them on these subjects, without necessarily taking a plane and going to the Himalayas to do a trek in Nepal or other things that require, on the one hand, financial means, but also big carbon emissions. Do you manage today to capture an audience that was not necessarily in this universe, in this representation of what it is?
Taking a vacation, taking a moment for yourself? Or are you still with audiences who are very, very aware and who are naturally attracted to you? My question is mainly, do you manage to go beyond this sphere of people involved?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, of course, in fact, on the media, we bring subjects that are quite broad. First of all, we don't only talk about environment, ecology. We talk about lifestyle, reconnecting to oneself, well-being. We talk about cool projects, cool brands, etc. So, already, by the media, since the subject is not purely ecological or commitment, we attract other people or in any case who are not purely committed to the environment. And also in the way we express ourselves or say our point of view, we are never moralizing, we try not to be lecturing. We are rather initiators of ideas. We want to give ideas, we want to give balls, but we will never tell people how to do it. We try more to guide them, or at least to spread ideas without being sanctimonious again. And I think that as a result, a lot of people, there is a large public that likes to follow us and that is in our community, that are not pure ecologists, but people who aspire to get involved on a daily basis, who would like to get involved, but who sometimes have not yet taken action.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
So yes, in our community, we reach a rather large target and people who are sensitive to ecology, nature, environment, but who are not militants.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Okay. And just to widen the circle a little bit, then we'll move on to maybe a little bit more specific things. What is your definition of marketing? Because on a daily basis, that's kind of your role, communication and marketing. What is marketing for you?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
For me, marketing, I would say that it's the good presentation and communication of a product, but always in accordance with the project or the concept of which it is part. It's the right way to communicate to your community or to your customers about what you offer. For me, marketing is far from being a dirty word. I know that sometimes we say to ourselves "marketing is horrible", but for me, it's really not a dirty word because when it's well done, when it's ethical, when it's true and when we tell it like it is, I think it's something that is essential to make projects live and to spread ideas we believe in.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Clearly, this is one of the reasons why Marion and I created this podcast, because in some situations, we were reproached for doing marketing. That questioned us a lot on the fact that "can we be virtuous on ethical, ecological, social aspects while doing marketing? It's true that it's still something that's quite complicated in certain spheres. And at the opposite extreme, there are people who ask themselves absolutely no questions. You talk about ethical marketing, what would it be like to do marketing in an ethical way for you?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
It's not greenwashing, it's not telling things that are false, it's spreading information that is true. That's what's really important, I think, and that's essential. And as you say, it's true that marketing and ecology, sobriety, all that doesn't necessarily go together, but in fact, marketing is used to communicate, to make people know things. And that means that good commitments, ecology, etc., are the same. If we don't market around it, nobody will ever know what to do or how to do it. So, it's so great this podcast that you guys are doing.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
We'll try to answer a lot of questions. I saw that before working for Chilowé, you had spent almost six years at EXKi, which is not quite the same sector as Chilowé, but it is also an approach that is quite close to sustainability issues on many aspects. What do you see as the common points of companies that are committed to ecological issues? Because I know that you are in contact with others, of course. Are there any major issues in the company's strategy, in the marketing strategy, on which, in the end, you find yourselves? Maybe some difficulties too? Because I think there are quite a few difficulties in communicating on these subjects.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, if I tell you about the two companies I've worked for, EXKi and Chilowé. What they have in common, I find, is a base that's true. These are products that are really designed and thought out with commitments behind them. At EXKi, it was really recipes with products that come from respectful agriculture, less polluting packaging and non-polluting logistics. At Chilowé, we don't do any mechanized travel. It's accessible by train. The guides are local, and they really raise awareness of nature. For the media, it's about inspiring subjects, environmental issues, useful information to get involved on a daily basis. It's really concrete. I think that's essential in all these fields. impact companies. This is the real thing. And to avoid what I was saying earlier, all the greenwashing and so on. And that's what I see when I rub shoulders with other companies that are just as committed: they've got the real thing behind them.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
When you talk about real and concrete, how does it materialize in the marketing strategy, in the communication?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
It's rather that once there is something real and a lot of incredible things happening in a committed company... Afterwards, in marketing, it's a blast because you want to show the whole world that you're doing things right. So, all you have to do afterwards is to put it in the right form, to communicate in the right way and at the right time to your community. It's easy to do marketing afterwards. But in the communication strategy, I would say that it is to put forward a product at the right time, to address the target group in the right way, to make the messages well understood, to speak simply, not to go into complicated speeches or things where you get lost in scientific stuff, and then to have clear messages.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
There is one point that came up quite regularly. On the Chilowé side, you still sell media and services. In the end, there is no physical product that comes out of a workshop or a factory on your side, but there is still for many brands this question of legitimacy. Is the way of life that I promote in my messages, is it really done internally, in the company, like that? You say that you try in the media not to have a moralizing tone and necessarily, we can't blame you for having this tone. But there are still many cases where in companies that want to be eco-responsible, some will go looking for the smallest beast, trying to scratch to see where there are inconsistencies between the practice and the speech that is applied. Is that what you are confronted with? At EXKi, it was probably easier to face it than at Chilowé.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, first of all, I think that in companies like this, you need to have employees, management or founders who are deeply convinced of the project they are working for and who are committed themselves. From then on, you will have projects that are well grounded, that are not half done, half true from an ecological point of view. And then, indeed, the difficulty is to have a clear course, to agree with everyone on what can be done or not done, because we are not perfect. And it's hard to be perfect. So you have to know how to choose your battles and admit when there are difficulties and when there are things that are not easy to put in place from an ecological point of view. You see, at EXKi, it is true that the world of catering is a complicated one. There are issues of supply, agriculture, food manufacturing, packaging and logistics. And it's true that we weren't perfect everywhere, but we dared to say so.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
And then we chose our battles on which we thought it was important to go and which had the most impact for the planet, for the environment. These are the difficulties we can encounter. Afterwards, I think that you have to keep your feet on the ground. We know that everything can't be perfect. And yes, sometimes, some people come to look for the little beast. But then, we accept it and we try to do the best in the field in which we work.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
What is difficult in the end is to prove your authenticity. And maybe the best way to prove it is also to admit when you've screwed up or gone in the wrong direction.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, exactly. I think that no company is perfect and we try to do the best we can in our own field. And, in any case, you sell services, you sell products, so there is a history of consumption behind it, there is a history of pollution, we'll say, no matter what form it takes. It's how we pollute as little as possible, we'll say, or how we have the least impact on the planet in the production of these products.
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Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Are there things in Chilowé's marketing strategy that you forbid to do for ethical or other reasons?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
We don't lie, of course. Otherwise, we don't deny ourselves anything. I think that if we are demanding on the partners or the things that we put forward to the community. We do a good job of screening projects and we associate with people who have the same values as we do. I believe that this is very important. There is no question of communicating with companies, with projects that do not resemble us or that are not committed, that seek to improve their image, etc.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
A priori, you will not partner with airlines on certain issues.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
I don't think so, I don't think it will ever happen.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
We recorded a podcast with Everide. During this podcast, we talked about a subject that is not often discussed, that of the marketing of renunciation. Isn't Chilowé in this state of mind, which is to teach people to give up a certain vision of happiness, of success, in order to come back to simpler things, but which will perhaps give them more satisfaction on other aspects? I don't know if this is an axis that you had already theorized?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
I don't know if I'd call it opt-out marketing. It's true that it's a bit scary and it sounds a bit negative. I would say that we are more in marketing or at least in the search for alternatives rather than renunciation. For example, we are not saying that we should give up going to the other side of the world. We just say that the Jura is as sexy as Costa Rica. I think we should not be fooled. We will always want to travel, to buy sweaters, to buy clothes, etc. As little as possible, of course. But we don't say that we have to stop enjoying ourselves if we want to buy a sweater, we say that maybe buying from such and such a brand of such and such a project that is committed, that does things well for the planet, is better. And avoid buying a sweater at H&M or Zara... Not to mention them. We are not naïve about the fact that not everyone is ready to give up to get involved. One of the ways to push people to be more eco-friendly and to do the right thing is to propose eco-friendly alternatives that are just as sexy as conventional ones.
For that, it is necessary to have products that are accessible and just as nice as conventional ones.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
What I see most in this notion, (and I understand that you see it as negative because renunciation, by default, is not very sexy when you put it that way) is the responsibility that people who do marketing have on the representation that the majority of people have of the world and of what is desirable. And in the end, shouldn't people who make eco-responsible products, in order to be successful and have a real impact on society, try to change this vision that people have of the world by trying to propose other desirable horizons than what exists today in the majority's head?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, I know what you mean and yes, it's true that it's also a point of view, but it's true that I, for the moment, I believe more in proposing alternatives that are just as good, just as accessible as pushing people to give up something. If a person can give up something they want to do, to be more involved, that's great, but unfortunately, I feel like not everyone is ready to do that yet. How do we find the best way to get more people to commit and consume or at least to go towards more virtuous things?
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
As for Chilowé, you are a media, a travel agency, you organize a festival. How do you manage to be on so many subjects at the same time while keeping an image that is relatively clear to your customers? I don't know how you consider them, your visitors, your content consumers?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
We talk a lot about the community.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
I'm interested to know how we keep some clarity?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
First of all, there is a great team behind the scenes that works on all these things. Otherwise, from a marketing point of view, we decided to make two different brands. You have Chilowé, the media, and you have the Chilowé club, which is the travel agency. Having two different brands and therefore a website for each, social networks for each, helped a lot to get the right message to the right target. Because we also have, for these two concepts, a different target. On one side of the media, you have people who want content, who want to read, who want to be inspired. On the club side, it's more people who want to go on a trip. So, two quite different targets and for that, we made two brands, which helps us well in the communication.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
This means that you treat the customer journey and the gateways to you separately. The advertising that you can do is oriented on two radically different axes. The idea is that "Someone who comes in through the club, at some point, is going to be directed elsewhere, to the media content and that people who come in through the media can go to the club side and we can inspire them to go there." Is that kind of the approach?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, exactly. These are bridges between the media and the Chilowé club. Obviously, the basis is the same. People understand that at Chilowé, there is content, articles, interviews, but there are also trips. And as you say, we build bridges between one and the other. For example, someone who is going to read an article about the ten most beautiful lakes in France, could be led to visit one of these lakes, via a link that says "If you want to go and see this lake, it's possible by going with the Chilowé club on this trip." On the Chilowé club, we relay content on how to go on an adventure? How to pack a hiking bag to go on a trek? This content is found on the website of Chilowé. We manage to build bridges like that between one and the other. We have two targets, one on the media, one on the travel agency, but there are people who follow us on the media and who go on a trip with us.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Do you have any former journalists on the team?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, we have a reporter.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Is there any particular work done on the tone, on the editorial charter? This is also a subject that comes up a lot with companies that have an eco-responsible approach. There is a real desire to work on the content, the way of writing, because it is an axis that is very strong on their side. Especially since they don't all have the means to spend hundreds of thousands of euros on acquisitions and sponsored content.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, there is a lot of work that is done. Here, it is rather the tone of voice where we have our own tone of voice. Our journalist, Flaming Seagull (we have little totem names here) or Marie, it's her real name, does a great job on the way of writing the articles, the pictures to look for... It's also what is important at Chilowé and what makes us easily known, it's this rather impertinent and funny tone of voice, without falling into vulgarity or ridiculousness, where people like to read our contents because it gives a smile and at the same time, they learn things. I think that's a very important element because it allows you to transfer articles by word of mouth. "This article here, look, it's so funny and I'm forwarding it to my buddy who might forward it to someone else or who might talk about it the next day at the coffee machine at work.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
And it's a great way for us to get some visibility.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
That we like. That's for sure. If visitors and customers are doing the job for you, why not?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
It's true that it's an interesting thing. We also think about content like that, thinking "OK, maybe we don't have thousands of dollars to do acquisition and build awareness." On the other hand, how can we find alternatives to do it in a nice and subtle way, that is to say different content, things that will make people talk at family dinners on the weekend or the next morning at the coffee machine between colleagues? "
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
In the end, by having this approach, don't you have brands coming to you for advice? Because you have a very advanced media approach. I'm not saying that you have to become an agency, but there must be people who are interested in your experience on this subject, because they may have weaknesses in this area.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
I think that Ferdy, the founder, Castor Fougueux, must have a lot of requests from people interested in Chilowé, in the history, in how Chilowé was built? It's true that it's very interesting and it's well done. I think that he has to spend some time to give his good ideas or coach a little bit other companies. But it's true that we are often asked how to organize ourselves internally. We have a good team, very committed people, people who are very passionate about the state of mind and that's how it works. We do everything ourselves, without use other agencies. Having everything in-house allows us to be very flexible and to adapt quickly to the subjects or content in order to stay with the brand. For me, it's a bit of a daily challenge to keep this brand, which is very beautiful, both qualitative and at the same time joyful and a bit impertinent.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
I insist a little bit, but does that mean that you have an editorial charter document with examples? Something that looks a bit like a design systemI'm talking about the design part, but who is really on the editorial part and who do you read over regularly? That you confront with what's just been written, is that kind of the spirit?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes, obviously, we have a kind of specification. We know the subjects on which we can go, on which we will not go because it is not our brand territory. We have positions where the angle on which we will approach a subject, corresponds well to the state of mind of Chilowé. Afterwards, it's something that is constantly evolving, maybe because we are a small company, we are growing, we are growing fast and the world is changing too. So, we often question ourselves, we regularly look at what we wrote six months before and then we ask ourselves if it is still relevant, if there are things to change? It's very important to have a kind of specification and a clear course, for the teams and to be sure that we never go beyond our territory.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
You are organizing a festival soon. What is the objective of this festival? When is it? Where? How does it work?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Yes !! In Paris, at the Good Planets foundation in the Bois de Boulogne. On June 10th and 11th, over two days, from 11am to 7pm, there will be round tables, conferences, film screenings and activities around our themes, our topics. That is, local travel, responsible consumption and commitment. And the idea of this festival is to have a very digital correspondence with our community. We are on social networks, we have a website, we send newsletters, but at some point, we want to see them in person. And then, it's also a demand of the community to know... People of our community want to meet, to share things in real and not only behind a screen. The idea of the festival is to meet and make our community meet. Two days of happiness to see each other and then to follow round tables, conferences, full of activities, workshops around nature, adventure, both for young and old.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Because we also have a lot of families who follow us and the idea is to welcome both adults and their children if they want.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Are there other companies that inspire you? In your case, it could be media that you admire or other companies that have succeeded in moving the lines? Companies that you follow or whose story you know because they are a bit like what you want to do?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
I'm going to speak instead on my behalf of brands that I like and that I find very inspiring. Very different from our universe, but for example, Hopaal, they are clothes that are made in France and in a responsible way. Their approach is quite radical and advanced in terms of ecology. Here, for example, they are going to launch a fundraiser by appealing to their community. Another company that I find inspiring is Too Good To Go. I think it's great what they've managed to do. It's a brand, or at least a business, that is a win-win for everyone while being good for the planet. This kind of project is quite inspiring, where you manage to reconcile the ecological commitment and the growth of a company. Too Good To Go, as a reminder, is selling unsold food from a restaurant at a reduced price. I think it was ingenious to set this up. Their communication and marketing is very clear, efficient and well done.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
And in the media, are there some that particularly inspire you or are you careful not to be too inspired to remain authentic?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
I really like Usbek & Rica for the themes they deal with, their way of communicating and the subjects I find fascinating. I also like The Good Goods or Bien ou Bien, on everything that is responsible consumption.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Do you feel close to the other media or are you a bit outside this circle of people who often know each other? There are the big classic media and then there are all the alternative ones too which are swarming at the moment. Or at the end of the day, you are in your corner, in your community?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
No, I wouldn't say we stay in our corner. Afterwards, each media has its own delirium and does things on its own. But obviously, we look a lot at what is done elsewhere. And sometimes, moreover, we build bridges. If we find an article or something very interesting in a media, we will quote it in an article too, we don't hesitate sometimes to talk about a media. Obviously, we will avoid being direct competitors, but there are media that have different subjects or formats than ours, such as the podcast.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
We are marketing a little collaborative too, it is essential and I think it is the marketing of the future. "Let's stop being each in our own corner, but let's do things together. In that case, you join forces a little bit and you get known by a lot more people. It's much more effective.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
Thank you for your participation. Do you have anything else to add in conclusion?
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Thank you for welcoming me. And then, to conclude, see you on Chilowé or on the trails of the Chilowé club.
Jonathan Loriaux, Badsender
It will be a pleasure. Thank you very much and see you soon.
Charlotte Bocquet, Chilowé
Hi Jonathan, see you soon.
